At the RED LAND event on Xiaohongshu, I met two heavyweight guests—Michał Nowakowski, Co-CEO of CD Projekt Red, and Jan Rosner, VP.
It can almost be said that these are the top-tier big shots I've encountered in my many years in game media.
I originally thought chatting with these business elites would be very formal, but the reality was quite the opposite. Michał and Jan spoke candidly about many tough topics, shared many past stories during our conversation, and their sincerity towards players was openly revealed in our dialogue.
Below is the transcript of the interview.
Michał Nowakowski, Co-CEO of CD Projekt Red
Q: Why did you choose to transition from a game distributor to a game developer?
Michał:Our company is based in Poland, where the market was primarily focused on PC games at the time. Although the console market was slowly emerging, we first noticed that the PC market was expanding. In fact, we were one of the drivers behind the growth of the PC gaming market. By localizing many PC games into Polish, we boosted their sales. However, this led to Western publishers establishing more branches locally to distribute games in Poland. We realized that, to some extent, they were pushing us out of the market. In other words, we had helped cultivate part of the market, only to be squeezed out. Meanwhile, we recognized early on that real profits come from game development itself, not just from being a downstream distribution partner.
Moreover, perhaps most importantly—we have always harbored the dream of making video games. We are all loyal fans of RPGs. We grew up during the golden age of RPGs in the 80s and 90s; we loved Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and many other works from that era. RPGs are our favorite, and we wanted to create our own works, hoping to one day rival the achievements of BioWare.
So, this is the reason for our transformation decision: partly out of passion, and partly a business choice.
Q: You joined CD Projekt Red in 2005 and witnessed the company's rise from humble beginnings to its current stature. Looking back, what does The Witcher series mean to you? What motivated you to develop this series?
Michał:The original The Witcher was released in 2007. Actually, the game's conception and development started several years before I joined CD Projekt Red. The Witcher (originally titled 'Wiedźmin' in Polish) was already beloved in Poland. People read Andrzej Sapkowski's short stories and later his novels—essentially, an entire generation of Poles grew up reading The Witcher. So, when we considered how to start developing our own games, we thought about acquiring an existing IP or obtaining its license—an IP with inherent vitality. After all, we knew we didn't yet have the strength to build a new fantasy world from scratch.
So, we needed a platform with an established worldview upon which we could build our creations. Honestly, the first thing that came to mind was The Witcher; it is a fantasy题材 and very suitable for adaptation into an RPG.
Besides, it has another trait that we felt was just right—its worldview targets adult audiences, with unclear boundaries between good and evil. This differs from traditional RPG models like Dungeons & Dragons, where good and evil alignments are clear-cut. The Witcher is full of moral gray areas—we really liked this aspect. We believed that the player base was maturing and would appreciate things closer to reality, which younger players might not grasp. Because in real life, many things are not simply black or white; reality often involves significant trade-offs and confusion.
This is why we chose The Witcher.
Jan:The original story of The Witcher is wonderful in itself. The three games we made are all built upon the novels. We genuinely believe it is an excellent foundation for RPGs—there are no absolute rights or wrongs, and it is filled with moral dilemmas... these elements easily resonate with RPG enthusiasts.
As players, this is the reason we were initially attracted to The Witcher.
Jan Rosner, VP of CD Projekt Red
Q: Why did you choose to expand a new story from the end of the original story at that time, rather than directly adapting the 'original' content that fans are more familiar with for the game plot?
Michał:To be honest, we wanted to tell a new story—that was the idea from our Polish team at the time. Since the original story had concluded and everyone knew the plot, we hoped to continue with new content. Thus, the original The Witcher used the somewhat cliché amnesia trope.
If you have read the novels, you know the original ending is quite ambiguous. Whether Geralt died or not was not explicitly stated by Andrzej Sapkowski, leaving room for interpretation. Therefore, we chose to设定 him surviving, allowing his legend and adventures to continue.
More accurately, we wanted to tell new stories about Geralt, Yennefer, Ciri, and others.
Jan:Besides, there are many details in the original novels. Andrzej Sapkowski, the author, wrote many parts quite briefly. For example, the specific rules of Gwent were interpreted and expanded by CD Projekt Red. The original work merely mentioned the name of the card game, with almost no further description—we built upon this foundation through secondary creation.
Such situations are common in specific development stages, and it is this extra work that allows us to expand the entire world. However, it is important to note that we did not deviate from The Witcher's worldview. We always ensure that all experiences are authentic and faithful to the original work.
Q: After the accumulation from the original The Witcher and The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings, was the success of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt inevitable for you?
Michał:I don't think success is inevitable; no success is predetermined. Honestly, we never assume any game we make will definitely succeed. Even when working on new projects now, we don't take success for granted, as this is a trap easy to fall into—if you believe you will always succeed, that is the beginning of decline. Therefore, we view each development as a challenge, and indeed it is. Even if previous works were hugely successful, developing new ones remains challenging.
The success of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt was by no means inevitable.
We could say that we indeed had great ideas at hand, and we all felt it had the potential for success—most importantly, we believed we could create something unique, combining an open world with a heavy, rich main storyline presentation, which almost no one had achieved at that time.
Of course, there were already open-world games with narratives at that time. But making open worlds back then often meant a relatively thin main story, while story-rich games were mostly not open world. Only we attempted to combine the two, and finally, this attempt succeeded.
The game was ultimately a huge success, and we were certainly very happy. But from the original The Witcher and The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings to The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, each step was a huge leap for us. Behind this was our gradually growing ambition and iterations of underlying technology.
Interestingly, when making The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, we felt we were ready. But looking back, we were actually challenging ourselves beyond our capabilities. The success of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt was, in a sense, truly a miracle. I am glad the outcome was good; it proved that having grand ambitions is feasible. And this success propelled the company to a new level.
Jan:To achieve success, you must take risks—open worlds are just one example of such risks. We could have easily continued with the same formula as the original The Witcher and The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings for The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, but we chose to pivot to an open world.
There are many stories from the frontline development back then. After all, our preset goals seemed almost impossible to achieve at first. But in the end, all conditions came together, and the studio overcame difficulties to achieve the goal. At no stage during the entire development cycle did we consider success inevitable—we remember this to this day and will continue to urge ourselves in future projects.
Taking risks means there's a possibility of failure, but to succeed, you must dare to take risks and explore what content resonates most with players.
Q: What risky decisions did you make while developing The Witcher 4?
Michał:Risk-taking decisions are inevitable. However, if we saw no possibility of success, we wouldn't have embarked on this development path. But risks always exist, whether it's The Witcher 4, Cyberpunk 2, or Project Hadar—they are all the same.
Our goal is to create a work with a refreshed gameplay experience.
Take a simple example: so many years have passed since the release of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, and The Witcher 4 won't be released until 2028. In these short dozen years, gameplay design in the gaming industry has iterated many times; many design concepts have changed, and many modern games feel very smooth and excellent... it's that simple. Therefore, we must raise our standards. We have many gameplay concepts we want to implement, which players will be able to experience in The Witcher 4, not to mention our other projects like Cyberpunk 2 and Project Hadar.
Jan:After all, eleven years have passed since the release of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt, and the industry has evolved significantly during this period. But behind grand ambitions, grounded effort is paramount. CD Projekt Red has countless diligent developers dedicated to realizing this vision.
I believe that as long as we remain humble and listen to players, all our efforts will be rewarded. Therefore, we set goals, strive for them, avoid rushing deadlines, and work hard to deliver works that meet player expectations.
Michał:The most important point is that the final product should make players and fans happy. As long as this is achieved, Everythinggj is good. But reaching the goal is indeed a long journey.
Q: I hope The Witcher 4 will have fewer bugs. I still can't forget Roach (Geralt's horse) standing on two legs at the launch of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt.
Michał:Hahaha, indeed—it has become an internet meme.
But honestly, this issue is very serious for us. We certainly hope for the smoothest possible experience at launch, but frankly, launching an open-world game is full of challenges, and it's hard to simulate every possible player action. After all, QA teams for large games usually consist of only a few hundred people—this is nowhere near the scale of millions of players flooding in after launch. They are not on the same level. However, some low-level bugs should not appear, and it has become an industry norm for developers of large games to release patches overnight after launch to fix issues.
I certainly don't want to see another major technical disaster like the 'upside-down horse.' By the way, the mount in the new game is Kelpie, so hopefully, we won't see horses running on rooftops anymore.
Q: Indeed, there are too many players, and their antics are endless—who would have thought that killing cows in White Orchard at the start could make you rich?
Jan:Yes, so later we secretly prepared some surprises for players who wanted to keep doing that.
Michał:The fact is, players will always perform actions you completely didn't anticipate. Over the years, I've talked to many designers around the world; as long as a game gives players freedom, various imaginative ways to play will emerge.
Linear games or corridor-style games might be much better—of course, I'm not disparaging linear games; they are also excellent. It's just that if you highly restrict the player's progression, it's harder for them to pull off bizarre maneuvers. However, linear games also have bugs like wall-clipping, which are relatively easier to fix.
And if you throw players into a sandbox world and give them high freedom, it will spawn all sorts of strange situations. Players' imagination is beyond imagination; this has its pros and cons. In short, players will always come up with quirky moves; some we choose to fix, while others we leave in.
Because some bugs are indeed interesting.
Jan:You can never predict all the situations that might arise after launch. Simulating all player behaviors in an open world is simply impossible with current development processes. However, we learn from past lessons and do our best to ensure a smooth overall gameplay experience and reduce bugs in the game.
Even so, patches and fix updates will continue to be released after launch. Moreover, we are still maintaining and updating The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt and Cyberpunk 2077 today, and we will continue to do so in the future.
Q: What did the initial 'failure' of Cyberpunk 2077 mean to you? As the executive responsible for business and investor communications at the time, how did this crisis reshape CD Projekt Red's approach to game development?
Michał:First, it was undoubtedly a disaster, a huge blow to the company and a severe hit to the development team's morale. Because the team really gave their all to complete this work. The last year of development coincided with the pandemic, with lockdowns and remote work across Poland, which further worsened everyone's mental state.
Then the game launched. Fans were full of expectation, and our development team was equally eager—everyone hoped to receive praise and celebrate, but reality was starkly different. For the company and every member involved in development, that period was incredibly tough. No one dared to go online; negative reviews were everywhere. It was the same for fans—so many people waited eagerly for this game, pre-ordered it at high prices, but ultimately received disappointment. Player experiences varied greatly across different platforms. The PC version offered the relatively best experience, but it still had many issues.
The most important lesson we learned from this failure is that large teams absolutely cannot rely on fully remote work to rush a game launch. Coordinating hundreds or thousands of people remotely is too difficult. Gathering in the office for face-to-face communication and collaboration yields much better results.
Furthermore, this completely changed our development model. Previously, we developed the PC version first and then ported it to consoles, which was the case for The Witcher series. Now, games must be runnable on all platforms from the early stages of development, with all content tested synchronously across all platforms.
We no longer want to focus solely on PC and start PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X|S development only a year before launch. We no longer just bury our heads in PC development; all this changed completely because of Cyberpunk 2077.
Additionally, our overall development methodology has been revolutionized. Previously, we developed modules independently and integrated them at the end. After integration, we often found incompatibilities, forcing us to dismantle and reassemble Everythinggj—a time-consuming and labor-intensive process. As projects grew larger, this model became increasingly difficult to manage.
These changes stem both from insights gained after review and from points gradually realized during the long process of fixing the game. I firmly believe this setback made our company and developer team stronger. I also hope players can see this growth in our future works.
To some extent, this growth was already reflected in Phantom Liberty. When it launched, it had far fewer issues than the base game's initial release. Although there were some small bugs requiring hotfixes, there were no catastrophic problems. One could say that the launch crisis of Cyberpunk 2077 reshaped the entire company, reshaped every member of the development team, and reshaped our approach to making games.
We absolutely will not, and do not wish to, fall into the same predicament again in the future.
Jan:I still remember that winter in December 2020; for me personally, it was definitely one of the worst experiences of my life—after all, we had accumulated excessively high expectations and hype.
What pains me most is that we, to some extent, let down the players.
But I am also grateful that our team was not defeated by this setback. It was right after the Christmas holidays, and everyone returned to work. I thought the team would be demoralized and dispirited by public opinion. But the reality was quite the opposite; everyone gathered their strength, ready to solve all problems. Thus, for the next three years, we continuously polished, fixed, and improved the game. From emergency fixes and version patches to the Cyberpunk: Edgerunners collaboration update, and finally to Phantom Liberty and the major 2.0 update.
I clearly remember the moment when reviews for Phantom Liberty were unlocked. Not only did we see the expansion's quality recognized, but we also saw positive feedback from the player community regarding the 2.0 update. At that moment, the pressure within us was completely released, and the team finally fulfilled the promise made years ago.
What this truly taught us is humility. In a sense, I am glad we went through all this; we gained massive experience—not just in development processes and methodologies, but also in our mindset. In my opinion, everyone in the studio has become much more humble compared to early 2020. I hope this change persists, benefiting not only the Cyberpunk series but also all future new titles.
In fact, our publishing work follows many unwritten rules. One of them is to provide excessive value in our games. Simply put, whether our price is $60 or $70, the experience we deliver must far exceed the price tag.
Therefore, we released 16 free DLCs after the game launched; we maintain each title for years, not just patching but also porting to new platforms—just like the recently released The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt – Remastered. We decided to provide content for free to all original owners, which is how we maintain relationships with our fans. So, the Cyberpunk 2077 crisis did not change our publishing strategy; instead, it further reinforced this principle.
Because in our internal evaluation system, we have always believed that maintaining a good relationship with players is of utmost importance.
Michał:What Jan just mentioned is our underlying philosophy, which has never changed and has only been strengthened now. This principle can even be traced back to our early days in game distribution, when we fought piracy with this mindset: if players spent a little extra to buy the boxed version of Baldur's Gate, they would receive official support, beautiful manuals, maps, and lots of bonus content... naturally, they would prefer the legitimate copy. This thinking continues to this day.
Therefore, we now strive to pack our games with rich content. Our standard is always player satisfaction. If players feel they got their money's worth, then we've done our job in publishing.
Jan:When facing uncertain business or publishing decisions, we imagine a scenario: if we were locked in a room with a group of players, could we communicate with them without guilt? If we can explain the decision to players face-to-face, then the decision is likely fine. If we feel it doesn't hold up even in our own hearts, we need to re-examine it and verify repeatedly with the team. This ensures that all measures align with our philosophy and corporate identity.
Q: In your opinion, what is the core commercial value of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt – Remastered? Why offer it for free to existing players? Is it to warm up for The Witcher 4?
Michał:This is a HD Remaster, not a complete Remake. We consider it an extension of existing game content—therefore, providing it for free to longtime supporters is only right.
In contrast, there are full remake projects. For example, the remake of the original The Witcher that we plan to release—which you'll see in the future—is a complete overhaul. The nature of this remake is entirely different, starting almost from scratch and building a new game with brand-new technology. Such projects will be paid products because they are not an extension of the original The Witcher—that game is nearly 20 years old.
Conceptually, this is also the basis for our decision on whether to offer something for free. Honestly, this decision never sparked debate within our company. When the proposal first landed on the table, we felt it was something that should be offered to players for free. So, we immediately started discussing with all platform partners how to implement it and resolve any potential issues.
Jan:Yes, if The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt – Remastered were paid, it would feel very wrong. I think we approached it from a completely different angle: since we're offering it for free to anyone who wants to play, we first need to ensure it deserves the title "Remastered." Does it have enough new features to be called a "remaster"? What else can we do to enhance its value? For example, including both previous expansion packs?
That's how we think, and how we discuss extending a game's lifespan in our hallway chats. After all, 11 years later, The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt is still selling strongly. So, The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt – Remastered isn't just a free upgrade for existing players; it's also a way to attract new ones. Most importantly, we want players to see that even with an 11-year-old game, we haven't given up.
Of course, you're right about one thing: the free The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt – Remastered ensures we can build hype for The Witcher 4, bringing the "Witcher" series back into everyone's spotlight.
Q: CD Projekt Red has now formed a complete IP matrix encompassing games, animation, film/TV, cross-over collaborations, and physical merchandise. What are your core evaluation criteria when selecting external partners and collaboration projects?
Jan:To answer one point first, we actually weren't involved in the specific production process of Netflix's The Witcher series; that's an area where we indeed lack expertise.
Despite this, we do have a comprehensive strategy called the "IP Flywheel."
While video games are undoubtedly the core of our business, Cyberpunk: Edgerunners proved that telling stories through other media is also the right direction, bringing fans into the entire IP ecosystem. Video games are just one way to consume stories and find entertainment. We're not just competing with other games; we're competing for people's attention and time. That time could be spent watching TV shows, movies, or playing board games—we're also happy to see products like the Cyberpunk TCG.
We want to ensure everyone can find content that suits them, especially through media that tells our stories. We also hope these media can bring audiences who aren't currently gamers into our video games.
And Cyberpunk: Edgerunners has proven that this path can be even more successful than we initially expected. We're delighted to see that a story told through a different, more linear medium can also resonate with audiences who knew nothing about Cyberpunk 2077.
Michał:Actually, this is entirely by design. We have a dedicated team overseeing this, namely the cross-departmental IP Franchise Team. They ensure that every collaboration strictly adheres to the lore, such as our collaborations with other games or the quality control of comics expanding other IP universes. We rigorously examine the timeline, allowing IP fans to naturally recognize that Everythinggj happens within the same universe and timeline, much like Marvel ensures all content in the Marvel Universe fits together seamlessly.
Moreover, we actually plan many years in advance. Because some things, like animation—while they may not seem that complex—actually require four to five years, or even more, to execute. You need to plan ahead, reserve slots, write the story, and estimate roughly when it will launch.
Of course, we'd love it if it were as simple as, "Hey, let's make an anime? Release it tomorrow." But that's not how it works. Whether it's comics or animation, it takes years of preparation and a huge amount of effort from many people.
Jan:As long as we maintain quality and tell good stories, the rewards are substantial. Earlier this year, among the collaborations done by our IP team, my favorite was the partnership with Wuthering Waves. In China, it was almost seen as another sequel to Cyberpunk: Edgerunners. The response to this collaboration was excellent, touching not only gamers but also anime fans. Seeing all this felt truly amazing.
I believe this is what a successful, well-executed collaboration looks like—it narratively complements both worlds while also bringing more value to each respective IP.
Michał:The key point is that we won't create something purely for cash grabs, not just for the sake of releasing it. We approach Everythinggj from this perspective: Is it interesting for the fans? Is it cool? Will they like it? Would we enjoy it ourselves as fans? These are the core questions we always ask ourselves.
Q: Many manufacturers and brands in the Chinese market propose IP collaboration proposals. Which types of collaborations are more likely to make the shortlist? Is there a type of collaboration project that CD Projekt Red would reject outright, regardless of how high the commercial return might be?
Jan:I can tell you, we've rejected many things.
Michał:We have core boundaries. For instance, we avoid alcohol, tobacco, and gambling—strictly speaking, games of chance.
Jan:Furthermore, regarding collaborations, we won't do anything that doesn't meet our quality standards, nor will we engage in partnerships purely for cash grabs with no other substance. We always ensure that whatever we do brings something interesting, and that the collaboration feels natural enough.
Michał:It can be a novel combination, but it must feel interesting and fitting. So, it can't be something that pops out of nowhere, detached from context. Otherwise, it won't work, and the story won't hold up.
Q: Finally, is there anything you'd like to share with domestic fans?
Michał:Thank you for coming here. I remember over 20 years ago, when we decided to localize the original The Witcher into Chinese, I had no idea what the response would be. We just thought, why not give it a try? Later, when The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings was released, we had the opportunity to visit China. We saw that the market here was completely different from what we knew in Europe and the United States.
We saw many people buying Western games. Back in 2011 and 2012, the market for Western-style RPGs in China was niche beyond imagination. But when The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt was released, we decided to go all in and see what would happen. I'm glad our investment resonated with Chinese players, and they responded to us in the best possible way.
Honestly, Chinese players are among the most dedicated, passionate, and thoughtful fan communities in the world. You can't help but love them. That's one of the reasons we're here at RED LAND today.
Jan:Exactly. I hope Chinese fans will continue to communicate with us. If we do something you don't like, please speak up directly. We will continue to invest energy in the Chinese gaming market, ensuring that Everythinggj we do here satisfies players. As Michał said, we genuinely see these efforts paying off, and we've received so much love.
Michał:So, we'll strive to keep doing what we do—what do you call us here again? Donkeys... "Polish Donkeys," right? We'll strive to continue being good "donkeys," in a positive way. We want to live up to that nickname and ensure it remains well-deserved.